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Thread: Lance Gets It atmo -

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    e-RICHIE's Avatar
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    Default Lance Gets It atmo -

    Lance Armstrong Exclusive Interview | Cyclingnews.com

    My generation was no different than any other. The 'help' has evolved over the years but the fact remains that our sport is damn hard, the Tour was invented as a 'stunt, and very tough mother f**kers have competed for a century and all looked for advantages. From hopping on trains a 100 years ago to EPO now. No generation was exempt or 'clean'. Not Merckx, not Hinault, not LeMond, not Coppi, not Gimondi, not Indurain, not Anquetil, not Bartali, and not mine.
    Agreed - The Tour IS a stunt.
    The sport is a stunt.
    Its business model died generations ago.
    If we follow it, write about it, photograph it (or even post online about it...) we enable it atmo.
    I believe its impossible to change the professional sport without capping its history first.
    We get the entertainment we deserve.

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    Clyde is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    One day Lance will learn to accept personal responsibility for his actions. As in: not mentioning others names. Or not ! Until that day: Who cares?

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    Too Tall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Is there a wristband that goes with?

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by too tall View Post
    is there a wristband that goes with?
    ballers

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Baseball = 40 home runs/100mph fastball
    Football = devastating hits
    Soccer = infinite running/infinite seasons
    Basketball = big men who play like guards
    Cycling = 3 weeks of uphill braking

    For each one, there are many people in the background who depend on athletes performing in order to make their money.

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    I think it's actually a pretty good interview. I didn't see the Oprah one but this whole idea of TRC makes a lot of sense. And complete amnesty. Otherwise, as he mentions, nobody will talk. They may not anyway, but everyone knows LA wasn't the first or only one to do this.

    To judge past generations by today's standards is tough but I think getting everyone to talk openly about it is the right way forward.
    My name is James Edward Kile

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    David Tollefson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    My thoughts on this whole thing is that we're all trying to force a very American ideal of "fair play" on a European sport, where every one, from the fan-on-the-street to the budding junior rider, knew what the price of entry to professional cycling was from the get-go. It's been entrenched in the professional sport for decades. Every one knew, they just didn't talk about it, looked the other way.

    Lance just upped that game and played it better than any one else.
    DT

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    Tom
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    "No generation was exempt or 'clean'. Not Merckx, not Hinault, not LeMond, not Coppi, not Gimondi, not Indurain, not Anquetil, not Bartali, and not mine."

    Unless those names are in the possessive, ending it with the possessive lands with a clang.

    Corrected: "...and not me."

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    ergott is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    If we follow it, write about it, photograph it (or even post online about it...) we enable it atmo.
    I believe its impossible to change the professional sport without capping its history first.
    We get the entertainment we deserve.
    Are we strictly talking about road racing here?

    I've given up on renewing my licence mainly because I find far more enjoyment from rides like Ballers and D2R2. Note that I haven't taken part in the doping discussions much at all exactly because of what you posted above.

    My question is, is cyclocross fringe enough not to be part of this conversation? Is the pro level of cyclocross any different? Does participation at the amateur/elite level albeit not full time professional play a part in enabling?

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    My thoughts on this whole thing is that we're all trying to force a very American ideal of "fair play" on a European sport, where every one, from the fan-on-the-street to the budding junior rider, knew what the price of entry to professional cycling was from the get-go. It's been entrenched in the professional sport for decades. Every one knew, they just didn't talk about it, looked the other way.

    Lance just upped that game and played it better than any one else.
    The professional sport will die if nothing changes. It's seen as corrupt and a few years ago the German networks opted to not carry TdF coverage due to the incessant scandals. This is a pretty big thing. Professional equates to money. Lack of TV coverage means fewer sponsors. Fewer sponsors means fewer races and fewer riders.

    If cycling is to survive the festering boil must be lanced. Yeah, that's a pretty pathetic pun. But he is not the only cancer in the sport. Ouch.

    Seriously, for anyone to think that just because LA has been given a sporting death sentence means the sport is back in the green is the height of naiveté. A few years ago Bjarne Riis sort of confessed to his past sins. What was his reward? He was banned from attending the TdF with his team. That's not a lot of positive incentive for others to come forward.

    At the very least doping cheats other riders. And at its worst, it's dangerous behavior that has cost the lives of many riders, many of them young amateurs or young pros at the beginning of their careers. If people think this is OK, then fine. But I don't think most people really like that.

    Truth and openness is the only way forward.
    My name is James Edward Kile

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    King Of Dirk is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    If we follow it, write about it, photograph it (or even post online about it...) we enable it atmo.
    This is true about le Tour. It is also true about le Lance.

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post

    Truth and openness is the only way forward.
    "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off" Gloria Steinem atmo

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    TMB
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    This so-called interview was conducted by e-mail and I can almost guarantee that Lancie-poo is not the one at the end of the string with the other tin can.

    If he wants to take a step forward and show he understands, then he should do a non-scripted interview, in person without having someone answer the questions for him. Either that, or go away.

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    Are we strictly talking about road racing here?

    I've given up on renewing my licence mainly because I find far more enjoyment from rides like Ballers and D2R2. Note that I haven't taken part in the doping discussions much at all exactly because of what you posted above.

    My question is, is cyclocross fringe enough not to be part of this conversation? Is the pro level of cyclocross any different? Does participation at the amateur/elite level albeit not full time professional play a part in enabling?
    I enable all of it by looking at the news feeds, wasting July watching real-time coverage, and enjoying liars having their feet held in the fire atmo. Its one huge stew of hypocrisy that I admit to being an ingredient in.

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    I enable all of it by looking at the news feeds, wasting July watching real-time coverage, and enjoying liars having their feet held in the fire atmo. Its one huge stew of hypocrisy that I admit to being an ingredient in.
    At some level we're all part of this in all aspects of life. I think about that with my 401(k). I want maximum returns. But I also vote for politicians who at least give lip service to things like environmental issues and labor issues, etc. It is possible that these issues could impact the returns on my 401(k) investments.

    So we're all part of the hypocrisy chain all over our lives.

    Off to spin class.
    My name is James Edward Kile

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    ergott is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    I really think this is the first year that I won't be following any racing. Best part is I enjoy the bike now more than ever.

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    My thoughts on this whole thing is that we're all trying to force a very American ideal of "fair play" on a European sport, where every one, from the fan-on-the-street to the budding junior rider, knew what the price of entry to professional cycling was from the get-go. It's been entrenched in the professional sport for decades. Every one knew, they just didn't talk about it, looked the other way.

    Lance just upped that game and played it better than any one else.
    Is it our (as Americans) idea of fair play, or just ignoring what's really out there? Maybe there isn't a difference between the two ideas. We fell in love with baseball again while the players were miraculously getting bigger and stronger than ever before. Pitching more effectively as you reach 40? It's all about sports science, not drugs! Players would never sully the sanctity of the hollowed grounds in order to get a guaranteed $100M contract!

    And we ignore it in football, too. At this moment, the NFL doesn't test for HGH. In 2013, they don't test for HGH. Gene Upshaw was adamant that his players weren't going to have blood tests done. Despite the obvious brutality of the game and the incentives to be artificially better/stronger/faster... Ray Lewis' defense to being dragged into the latest PED scandal this week, where they have a recording of him asking about how to use a banned substance mind you, is that he's passed every drug test, even through they don't even test for IGF-1 or whatever the raindeer spray he was buying contains. Of course, no one really cares that he killed two people either.

    In the NBA Rashard Lewis played out of his mind, failed a drug test, then signed one of the worst contracts _ever_ in the NBA. No one asks if his extra talent was on loan for drugs.

    Enough rambling from me. I think we as sports entertainment consumers try our best to ignore reality as much as possible. The tricky part is when a sport like cycling makes an effort to clean up. And for whatever it is worth, cycling has made that effort. Of the big three, MLB has done something, and the NBA and NFL haven't. But I think they value market share more than the safety of their employees.

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    ballers
    BALLER, since 96ish.

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    My thoughts on this whole thing is that we're all trying to force a very American ideal of "fair play" on a European sport, where every one, from the fan-on-the-street to the budding junior rider, knew what the price of entry to professional cycling was from the get-go. It's been entrenched in the professional sport for decades. Every one knew, they just didn't talk about it, looked the other way.

    Lance just upped that game and played it better than any one else.
    They= The Euros and UCI

    They came to the US searching for money. They call it globalization.
    You are correct that the sport had a "behind the curtain" element to it, and for the most part it was a known issue.
    They were greedy and either under or overestimated what the true cost of dealing with American, sports, sponsors and athletes would entail.
    "make the break"

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    Default Re: Lance Gets It atmo -

    Remember - he didn't mention the names of others; he mentioned the generations they all raced in.
    The cat is supremely lawyered up atmo.
    The interview text was edited since I first linked it...

    Was -
    No generation was exempt or 'clean'. Not Merckx, not Hinault, not LeMond, not Coppi, not Gimondi, not Indurain, not Anquetil, not Bartali, and not mine.
    Now -
    No generation was exempt or 'clean'. Not Merckx's, not Hinault's, not LeMond's, not Coppi's, not Gimondi's, not Indurain's, not Anquetil's, not Bartali's, and not mine.

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