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Thread: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

  1. #1
    PDAR is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    I'm having Nemesis rims built with R45 hubs, 32 hole. Use will be daily training. I'm 6'6", 185 pounds. LBS has recommended 3x 14g rear, and 2x 14 or 15g front. Any recommendations here? Thanks.

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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Your LBS is wrong - appropriate butted spokes always build a stronger wheel, and cross is determined by number of holes.

    Build them with 2.0-1.8 butted spokes (I like DT Competitions) front and rear, brass nipples, 3 cross.

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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Quote Originally Posted by PDAR View Post
    I'm having Nemesis rims built with R45 hubs, 32 hole. Use will be daily training. I'm 6'6", 185 pounds. LBS has recommended 3x 14g rear, and 2x 14 or 15g front. Any recommendations here? Thanks.
    I feel that 2x is perfectly acceptable on the front of this wheel. I like to run 2x on front wheels often.

    I would recommend butted spokes front and rear 99.9% of the time. 3x is good for the rear.

    I'm not sure where you live but if you are asking this question here, you aren't fully comfortable with the wheel builder you are planning on working with. I would find a builder with a good reputation in your area and leave it in their hands to make these decisions, feel free to talk to them about it but if you don't trust them to choose your spokes and lacing pattern than you shouldn't trust them to build your wheels.
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    David Tollefson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Quote Originally Posted by christian View Post
    Your LBS is wrong - appropriate butted spokes always build a stronger wheel, and cross is determined by number of holes.

    Build them with 2.0-1.8 butted spokes (I like DT Competitions) front and rear, brass nipples, 3 cross.
    Seriously not understanding the logic of this statement. Please expound.
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    fa63 is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    I am 225 lbs, and forum member ergott built my 32-hole Nemesis rims with Sapim Race spokes and brass nipples, 3x front and rear (Dura Ace hubs). The wheels came in at 1,810g. I have had them for about a year and had to touch the rear wheel once after running into a nasty pothole which I thought was going to toast my wheels.

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    Ligero is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    I will second that your LBS is wrong. Butted spokes are stronger then straight gauge spokes, straight gauge are stiffer but at your weight you don't need the wheels any stiffer. There is also no reason for the 2x lacing on the front wheel when it is 32h. If they tell you that 2x is lighter because the spokes are shorter ask them to do the math and tell you by how much. Going from 3x to 2x will make the spokes about 5mm shorter, now multiply the 5mm of spoke saved times 32 and you get 40mm of spoke weight saved. They may seem like a lot until you look at the length of the spoke and how much they weigh. The spoke length for a 32 3x Nemesis build is in the 302mm range and a 14g spoke weighs about 8 grams. So by going with 2x lacing instead of 3x you will save about 1 gram.

    If it were me and I am almost the same size as you (6ft 4in, 190lbs) I would do 3x both front and rear, 14/15 gauge drive side spokes and 14/17 gauge front and non drive side.

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    PDAR is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Quote Originally Posted by SignatureJustin View Post

    I'm not sure where you live but if you are asking this question here, you aren't fully comfortable with the wheel builder you are planning on working with. I would find a builder with a good reputation in your area and leave it in their hands to make these decisions, feel free to talk to them about it but if you don't trust them to choose your spokes and lacing pattern than you shouldn't trust them to build your wheels.
    Thanks for the quick advice. I trust the LBS. They have previously built wheels for me, but always 3x. This is the first time they mentioned a 2x front option, and I was hoping to prompt some discussion of that here.

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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Quote Originally Posted by PDAR View Post
    Thanks for the quick advice. I trust the LBS. They have previously built wheels for me, but always 3x. This is the first time they mentioned a 2x front option, and I was hoping to prompt some discussion of that here.
    I think the overall differences between 2x and 3x are minor. I'm not going to go into full discussion about wheel differences and turn this thread into a mess. But it sounds like all you need to do is say to your builder, "Please makes them 3x front and rear and use butted spokes front and rear. When can I pick them up?"

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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    Seriously not understanding the logic of this statement. Please expound.
    Wheels are stiffer when the spokes leave the hub at as close to a tangent angle as possible. For 32h wheels, this is achieved with 3x lacing. 24h is 2x, 28h is 2x or 3x based on hub flange dimensions, 36h is 3x or rarely 4x, 40h is 4x.

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    Moke is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Justin says it all, IMHO. I do have a couple sets of wheels with straight ga 3x spokes and seriously doubt I could tell the difference in a blind ride test. I don't think without looking that I even know which bikes have butted vs straight spokes on them right now. I would guess oneof my bikes probably has one of each wheels. I think my only 2x wheels are HF campy track hubs. There are a lot of hairs to be split in wheel building, but I have only used only four wheelbuilders in my 50 years of riding. Find a good one and tip them well.

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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Quote Originally Posted by christian View Post
    Wheels are stiffer when the spokes leave the hub at as close to a tangent angle as possible. For 32h wheels, this is achieved with 3x lacing. 24h is 2x, 28h is 2x or 3x based on hub flange dimensions, 36h is 3x or rarely 4x, 40h is 4x.
    Ah, got it. Was brain-farting (*ew!*) all over this concept and forgetting that spoke angle is dependent on the number of spokes crossed... Fewer spokes available to cross means angle closes up (has to go farther around the wheel)... Thanks.
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    ergott is offline 2KClub
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by christian View Post
    Wheels are stiffer when the spokes leave the hub at as close to a tangent angle as possible. For 32h wheels, this is achieved with 3x lacing. 24h is 2x, 28h is 2x or 3x based on hub flange dimensions, 36h is 3x or rarely 4x, 40h is 4x.
    This is only true for torque.

    Technically, 2x is laterally stiffer than 3X for a 32 spoke wheel, but but the difference is too small to matter. Sometimes I do 2x for 32 spoke front wheels. You can make a fine wheel either way.

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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Ive found that often I can build a front and rear wheelset using all idenical length spokes if the front and the rear NDS are laced 2x, the dished rear drive side is laced 3X. If you are buying bulk spokes by the box, it is nice to only need one size and if you carry a spare spoke while riding, it can be used anywhere.

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    'nati Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lacing choice for Ambrosio Nemesis

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Ive found that often I can build a front and rear wheelset using all idenical length spokes if the front and the rear NDS are laced 2x, the dished rear drive side is laced 3X. If you are buying bulk spokes by the box, it is nice to only need one size and if you carry a spare spoke while riding, it can be used anywhere.
    To piggyback on GrayJay's post is there any advantage to 2X/3X lacing for the rear wheel besides being able to use same length spokes for both wheels?

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