I Could Not Agree More atmo -

[e-RICHIE]

I stopped posting on Lance-ish thread the Monday that USADA's decision was handed down (almost three weeks ago...). I got the outcome I hoped for and wanted atmo. But after seeing this news story I am piling on.

Report: IOC Member Says "Armstrong’s Credibility Has Gone" Regardless Of Olympic Medal Decision | Cyclingnews.com

Maybe it is good for the fans, but if you put athletes in a situation where they have no choice but to take illegal substances just to compete, that is wrong.

I fully agree. And I also am reiterating that the grand tour business model has long since lost its luster, relevance, and importance. The three week race is as close to the WWF and Rollerball as the sport can be. And we all lose as a result. I do not trust the sport going forward if a single rider or former rider is allowed to be part of the ordeal. Will I be entertained either way? Sure I will. Do I think anything will change without a complete fukcign housecleaning? No, I don't.

[GAAP]

"........but if you put athletes in a situation where they have no choice but to take illegal substances just to compete, that is wrong. "


Yup.

[sk_tle]

I'm afraid we only talk a lot about this because of the off season. If nobody is done at the uci level before the tour down under it will just fade as the medias will focus on the races and it will be forgotten next july. Until the next scandal. I'd like to see the racers and teams all go on strike for a clean sport until the house cleaning is started, but It won't happen. Time is running out.

[Justin Spinelli]

to me the TDF is procycling and procycling is the TDF.

it sucks that my version of cycle sport has been exposed for what it is but strangely i find myself trying very hard to hold onto it.

[ergott]

Do I think anything will change without a complete fukcign housecleaning? No, I don't.

Agreed. What are possible ways for that to happen?

[ergott]

to me the TDF is procycling and procycling is the TDF.

it sucks that my version of cycle sport has been exposed for what it is but strangely i find myself trying very hard to hold onto it.

Then why did you leave? You saw first hand what goes on and decided against it. Why is it okay to put other riders through that system at the risk of their own health?

[Chance Legstrong]

Agreed. What are possible ways for that to happen?

trial and judgement against, Pat and Hein
an independent auditor to run the UCI for an indefinite amount of time until we can "cycle" through to get a clean leader.
a riders union that is transparent and NOT run by former riders (yet- see above)

[Chance Legstrong]

Then why did you leave? You saw first hand what goes on and decided against it. Why is it okay to put other riders through that system at the risk of their own health?

he was a cog

(my observation, not his answer.)

[ergott]

trial and judgement against, Pat and Hein

Who puts them on trial?

[Chance Legstrong]

who puts them on trial?

ioc, cas

[lukasz]

Then why did you leave? You saw first hand what goes on and decided against it. Why is it okay to put other riders through that system at the risk of their own health?

I don't want to put words into his mouth but cycling is super-romanticized and tragedy/suffering is a large part of the range of emotions fans want from it. Yeah doping is unhealthy and people suffer, but that's exactly what we want and expect and that is how it has been since the beginning of these ridiculous grand tours. Think Nietzsche. After all, this crap started in his era, haha. Of course we know what happened with all that (stopping myself here for the good of my profession).

[Justin Spinelli]

in 3 months boonen will win Quatar for the 8th time and it will be like none of this ever happened.

[miwuksurfer]

courtesy of The Onion.

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[e-RICHIE]

in 3 months boonen will win Quatar for the 8th time and it will be like none of this ever happened.

It will remain unchanged only if folks sit on their hands and cup their mouths rather than using them to speak from. This news story that spans over a generation is the first of its kind in the internet era and I think opining and speaking with your wallet will have an effect atmo. The voices all over the web are linked. Unlike the Festina thing that seems provincial by contrast, the fallout from the USADA investigation gives us a chance.

Remember - some things are worth fighting for even if it's clear you have no chance of winning. The day after an election should make that fact crystal clear.

[sk_tle]

Do you mean you will follow the Lemond advice and stop paying for an uci licence and let the richard sachs cx team run only on non uci/usac events ?

[professerr]

It seems there are two issues here: 1) does the distance of the race make it inherently dangerous/inhumane and 2) can the race be run without riders ultimately succumbing to drugs which are inherently dangerous.

As to the first question (re: distance), I don’t recall any serious cries from anyone who has actually participated in the race calling for it to be substantially downsized or cancelled simply because it is too long and hard. Protests along those lines from those guys would have credibility. I don't follow the sport that cloesly though. Have their been any? If not, who am I to say what is best for them, at least in terms of distance.

As to the second question (re: drugs), I suspect it is mainly a matter of will and technology. A brutal zero tolerance policy combined with a full-on technological assault to detect doping might make the risk/reward ratio so high that no one with any real talent would risk doping. But unless that is possible, then, yeah I agree with cries to get rid of the event. I agree it is immoral “to put athletes in a situation where they have no choice but to take illegal substances just to compete.” Drug use changes everything, and there are plenty of riders protesting that. And it certainly is not entertaining for me to watch doped up men climb a mountain like abused circus animals.

[e-RICHIE]

Do you mean you will follow the Lemond advice and stop paying for an uci licence and let the richard sachs cx team run only on non uci/usac events ?

Ours is an amateur team and has always been one. I support a governing body that takes care of creating and enforcing the rules of the sport. In as much as the commissars who work the C2 and C1 races that we attend all season are UCI officials, the work they do is far removed from the issues and news stories linked here. Most who I know intimately express the same lack of respect for the suits that I do. I am for getting rid of the suits, and much less interested in having nothing left at all. The rules are good. The races we go to are well officiated. The pieces of the pie that affect us have shown no corruption, and no activity remotely related to a scandal. So I cannot say that boycotting the scene that I am part of makes sense, even if that is what LeMond suggests as the solution.

[ergott]

The way Tyler explained it in his book, you loose about 2% of your hematocrit a week at the Tour. Consider that the first week is BS for the contenders they are already getting a bit wiped before the first mountains even start. The performance drop of a rider that isn't doping a grand tour is in the order of 6% at the end which is monumental at that level. Also, the third week is usually when the tour is really decided with a massive climbing stage in the last couple of days and/or a TT. I can totally see what e-R is saying.

[ergott]

Ours is an amateur team and has always been one. I support a governing body that takes care of creating and enforcing the rules of the sport. In as much as the commissars who work the C2 and C1 races that we attend all season are UCI officials, the work they do is far removed from the issues and news stories linked here. Most who I know intimately express the same lack of respect for the suits that I do. I am for getting rid of the suits, and much less interested in having nothing left at all. The rules are good. The races we go to are well officiated. The pieces of the pie that affect us have shown no corruption, and no activity remotely related to a scandal. So I cannot say that boycotting the scene that I am part of makes sense, even if that is what LeMond suggests as the solution.

Thanks, your best explanation yet.

[bertiewhang]

I wonder what can be done to move forward w.r.t. doping, can someone explain what Greg is getting at in this clip please?
I don't fully understand the link between vo2 max and power. Is what he suggests practicable?

Thanks