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Thread: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

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    jwb96 is offline VSalonistas
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    Default H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    I've been getting close to getting a set of HED Belgian C2 rims built up. But today, I stumbled across a PR release that H Plus Son was releasing a 23m wide x 25mm deep rim, the Archetype (Archetype | H PLUS SON).

    I have no experience with H Plus Son. So was wondering if any one here, especially our resident wheelbuilders, has any feedback on them in general, and whether anyone has seen one of these rims yet. With some more googling, it seems like the fixed gear hipsters are the ones posting about HPS.

    Thanks,
    Jim

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    Erik B's Avatar
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    I have some SL42's on a bike. Front built easily enough and the guy that built the rear(PT) had nothing bad to say about them.
    They've stayed round and true under my fat ass.
    The brake tracks seemed nice enough, but the anodizing on them went away fairly quickly as I expected it would. Per usual the rims were a bit heavier than the claimed weights, and the two that I had varied a bit. I don't remember how significant it was in terms of the real world or even a percentage but it is something I remember.

    The HED's Belgian C2's are also very nice rims that built up nicely for me on a pair Centaur hubs.

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    Britishbane's Avatar
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Do a search. There was a thread not to long ago about Hplus Son rims. If I remember correctly the reviews were mixed, something about difficulties getting the rim to stay true.

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    suhacycles is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Not sure about the quality but that thick, rounded spoke bed looks like a smart idea for rims without eyelets.

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    jds108 is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    I have built one pair of the TB14s and they're very nice. They must have been machined and finished after the being joined as there is no visible seam on either the sidewall or the top. Just like somebody else said they were just a little heavier than claimed. Mine don't have many miles on them but they're good so far.

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    Britishbane's Avatar
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Thread referenced above:H+Son TB14 rims available yet? Experiences?

    Not the exact model referenced by the op, but perhaps valuable.

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    jwb96 is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Quote Originally Posted by Britishbane View Post
    Thread referenced above:H+Son TB14 rims available yet? Experiences?

    Not the exact model referenced by the op, but perhaps valuable.
    I finally found that post . . . bit of mixed reviews. The thing about the Archetype is that the claimed weight appears to be competitive with C2s and A23s, so whether or not they can hit that weight with the new model will be important.

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    Rodador is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    I bought some of the TB114 rims; but I haven't built them yet. They weighed in at 500 g rather than 490. A Mavic MA40 weighed 467 on the same scale.

    I couldn't find what I wanted (36h polished) locally and ended up ordering from that H plus Son website. Shipping made the price about the equivalent of retail here at a local source. They arrived pretty quickly in apparently good condition.

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    jwb96 is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Quote Originally Posted by jds108 View Post
    I have built one pair of the TB14s and they're very nice. They must have been machined and finished after the being joined as there is no visible seam on either the sidewall or the top. Just like somebody else said they were just a little heavier than claimed. Mine don't have many miles on them but they're good so far.
    That's encouraging. In the pecking order, that puts them above the A23s, which from what I hear commonly have unevennesss in the brake track at the pinned joint.

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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    I too was just turned on to the Archetype. Can't seem to find them anywhere. The H Plus Son website does not seem to have much stock on hand...I am looking for the silver ones. If you find them, please do tell. thanks.
    The mountains are calling and I must go.

    - John Muir

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    echelon_john is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    I've never had this issue with A23s and have built 50+/- pairs in the least 2 years. Quality has goten better and better over time too.


    Quote Originally Posted by jwb96 View Post
    That's encouraging. In the pecking order, that puts them above the A23s, which from what I hear commonly have unevennesss in the brake track at the pinned joint.

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    omnigrid is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    I'd choose HED over H+Son anyday...

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    jwb96 is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Quote Originally Posted by omnigrid View Post
    I'd choose HED over H+Son anyday...
    Good to know. Any specific reasons why?

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    echelon_john is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    They're better.

    More seriously, I haven't built the Archetype so I can't comment on that rim specifically. But the other H+Son rims I've built are much less rigid and much more difficult to get round (vertically) than HEDs. This isn't that big a deal; they build more like old GP4s did, where they're much more sensitive to vertical adjustments than most modern rims. Side to side they're fine. The HEDs are an excellent rim. I still steer people toward A23s a lot of the time, though--95% of the quality at 50% of the price. And they come in colors!



    Quote Originally Posted by jwb96 View Post
    Good to know. Any specific reasons why?

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    blasdelf is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Quote Originally Posted by echelon_john View Post
    The HEDs are an excellent rim. I still steer people toward A23s a lot of the time, though--95% of the quality at 50% of the price. And they come in colors!
    Also MADE IN MURRICA now, so maybe the cabal will start considering them as SOPWAMTOS since they aint shipped from the antipodes anymore.

    H+SON makes their own shit too, in their own facility with proprietary tooling — "H" owns an aluminum extrusion factory and his son Tzusing designs and markets the product line himself.

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    Patch's Avatar
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Tsu is a bit of a perfectionist and a really cool guy. A 24h Archetype came out to 460g on the shop scale, 10g above the 24h A23 we had on hand. The problem with the TB-14 as far as stiffness goes is simply due to the design. It's designed to look good and function okay. The Archetype is just as stiff as a HED Belgium, and much sexier.

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    Patch's Avatar
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    apparently not "just as stiff" actually. I'll wait for another dude to chime in on this one.

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    sonny's Avatar
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    a polished set of these on matching wi hubs, laced w/ db14s would be yummy

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    omnigrid is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Quote Originally Posted by blasdelf View Post
    H+SON makes their own shit too, in their own facility with proprietary tooling — "H" owns an aluminum extrusion factory and his son Tzusing designs and markets the product line himself.
    ...and still I'd prefer HED/Velocity offerings over H+Son and the three or so rim models he has produced in the last couple years.

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    CBratina is offline VSalonistas
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    Default H Plus Son rims? Specifically, the Archetype

    Quote Originally Posted by omnigrid View Post
    ...and still I'd prefer HED/Velocity offerings over H+Son and the three or so rim models he has produced in the last couple years.
    I tried the H Plus Son Archetype polished rim on our tandem. About 8 grams over the stated weight. It built up beautifully and held true, but the front brake shudder with our Avid linear pull rim brakes was unacceptable. Much worse than the Velocity Fusion and Deep V rims which are marginal. DT is a little better, but disappointing for the price. HED is much better, and Mavic welded rims are great. The A-719 has absolutely no brake shudder. Not sure if I got a bad sample of the Archetype.

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