Eff Builders - Talk about 753 tubing

[Saab2000]

Was it cool? Why was it mythical in its day? Or was it overrated?

Let's hear it from '753 Certified' frame makers.

[Dave Kirk]

I became 753 certified back in the day and it was/is cool stuff. It was a big deal then and now it would just be normal tubing. Like with most materials, it's time has come and gone.

Dave

[soBRIquet]

I became 753 certified back in the day and it was/is cool stuff. It was a big deal then and now it would just be normal tubing. Like with most materials, it's time has come and gone.

Dave

Hey Dave,
Is it just the weight of the material (or, how light a frame you can build with it) that determine it's marketable lifespan?
Or is there something else about materials that evolves to make it more appealing to a builder like yourself?
To keep it on-topic, specifically what was it about 753 that made it good back then?
Bri

[Dazza]

My feelings are a bit different than Dave's
I got certified in 753 in 1989
I never used it, never built a frame with it
why?
By circa 1990 it had no use
It was as I understand it heat treated 531, I got that eventully from the Reynolds people after pressing them for some time
This brings the tensile up and ductility went down. (crude term is brittle)
This does not make the tubing stiffer.
Originally they made thin .7 wall tubes (std diameters)
this proved to be too thin, flexy and there was breakages
753 fork blades were not a good idea. (came with a terrible pre rake and breakages were common)
they upped the wall thickeness of the main tubes and chainstays circa late 1970's
then they released 653 which had a different heat treatment for the three main tubes, which gave these tubes better ductility
but still had the 753 stays
More reliable
and also you did not need a cert to build with it, which helped their sales to builders.
I made many many frames with 653
I had a bad batch of 653/753 chainstays that had not been tempered correctly after heat treatment, they tore teeth off hacksaws and if you flexed them they broke like a fresh carrot.
Two frames I was building were ruined by this, these frames never reached the customer , they were scrapped during the build process.
I raced a 653 frame in France, it was my first frame with stainless dropouts. It was a nice frame and it is still kicking around some where.
By then the world had got a nice range of OS tube sizes and MAX, Cyber Genius, etc in the Nivacrom material from the the White Dove mob
and life was better
Reynold came out with OS 700, with four ribs in the main tubes, The 4 ribs was not enough so then came 708 with 8 ribs
By then Columbus had killed every one with the Nivacrom material and Reynolds was left behind.
A shame really. The Reynolds supply in OZ was good back then.

[soBRIquet]

Hey Dazza. That was a cool history. Thanks.
You need to write a book.

[Dave Kirk]

Hey Dave,
Is it just the weight of the material (or, how light a frame you can build with it) that determine it's marketable lifespan?
Or is there something else about materials that evolves to make it more appealing to a builder like yourself?
To keep it on-topic, specifically what was it about 753 that made it good back then?
Bri

The material was stronger so they could use less of it and therefore make it lighter. The issue was, as Dazza points out, that it was brittle and if you were a hack with a torch it got very brittle. 753 was one of the first heat treated tubes and it was a good first step but if you compare it to modern tubes like 853 and 953 it can't compare. The metallurgy got better and the tubes followed suit.

I think there is a bit of a misplaced cult status that follows 753. It's understandable I guess because it was new and hight tech and exclusive at the time and it allowed the tubes to be made lighter than anything else out there at the time. I think folks remember that and think of the good ol days and want 753. But it isn't that good compared to modern tubes and it's time has passed - just like SLX or 531. Nice stuff in it's day but time marches on.

dave

[GrantM]

But it isn't that good compared to modern tubes and it's time has passed - just like SLX or 531. Nice stuff in it's day but time marches on.

dave

For smaller/lighter riders, the non-OS tubes still ride really nice. imho.

-g

[edoz]

Was it still in use by 95 or 96? My Waterford 1200 road frame is from one of those years (serial # full of paint so I'm not sure which) and it's got a 753 sticker on it. The sticker is over the paint, so it could have been added later by the first owner?

[Dave Kirk]

For smaller/lighter riders, the non-OS tubes still ride really nice. imho.

-g

I couldn't agree more. In this case I use 725. Light, strong and will last next to forever.

Dave

[xjoex]

I worked at a Waterford Dealer at the time, in 95 they were most definitely making 753, I had one that was ordered that year.

-Joe

[Dazza]

Hey Dazza. That was a cool history. Thanks.
You need to write a book.

No worries, with Ginger the technical writter in the house as well
it will be super
Now, to business matters
Please send my first book advance of $300,000 usd to my account ASAP
the second advance of $300,000 will be on your reciept of the manuscript from us next June
and send the other contract for us to sign, you know the one, the 25% of the gross book sales one
and the busniss class airfares for the book signing launch in Venice next September

Thanks pal

Normal progaming can now resume........................

[Curt Goodrich]

I got 753 certified sometime in the late 90's. Mostly it was on a whim. match bicycle company used a lot of Reynolds so they sent us some test kits. I brazed it up and passed. Don't know where my certificate is though. As Dazza and Dave pointed out, 753 was heat treated 531. In the early years of it's introduction 753 wasn't very reliable. Case in point the fork blades but also the main tubes were drawn too thin. I don't know if this was due to a lack of quality control or if the spec was just too thin. Regardless, the early stuff was not reliable. Reynolds learned and started making the stuff in more reasonable wall thicknesses. I've built at least a couple of hundred bikes (Rivendells) with 753 tubes with zero problems. The stuff was nice and has similar numbers to 725. I suspect the reason 753 went away was because mag/moly (531) does not work well when tig welded. While cromo (525) works nicely for tig. Reynolds saw the writing on the wall in regards to this and knew it would be a costly mistake to keep a line of tubing that can only be brazed. Especially when that tubing didn't have any better mechanical characteristics than cromo.

[SteveP]

i had a 753 eddy merckx in turquoise that i liked,
these guys know the rest.

Please send my first book advance of $300,000 usd to my account ASAP
the second advance of $300,000 will be on your reciept of the manuscript from us next June
and send the other contract for us to sign, you know the one, the 25% of the gross book sales one
and the busniss class airfares for the book signing launch in Venice next September

dazza,
you misplaced the decimal point. your advance of $3.00 was mistakenly spent by me yesterday on a lg coffee.
i will repay you next time you are in boston.

[Dazza]

i
dazza,
you misplaced the decimal point. your advance of $3.00 was mistakenly spent by me yesterday on a lg coffee.
i will repay you next time you are in boston.

oh sod it
I had already typed 15,000 words
I suppose it is back to the workshop to make some frames