'Cross Builders, what are y'all doing about legalized discing?

[e-RICHIE]

i am late to this thread - sorry.
let's talk elegance atmo.
all things being the same, a fork made for disc brakes will be heavier because it needs to have the strength to accept different torsional loads?
is that a given at this point in time?

[zank]

I would say yes.

All-in, I would say that the bike would weigh at least a couple of pounds more with disks. BB7 Road disks (with rotors) are 660 grams per bike vs TRP EuroX cantis at 240 grams per bike. Plus the hubs will be heavier. King Iso Disk hubs are about 500 grams a pair vs 315 grams a pair for their R45 hubs or 350 grams for a 240s set. Plus heavier fork blades. Plus rear disk mount. Plus longer cables and housing. It adds up quick.

[MIN]

i am late to this thread - sorry.
let's talk elegance atmo.
all things being the same, a fork made for disc brakes will be heavier because it needs to have the strength to accept different torsional loads?
is that a given at this point in time?

as it relates to off the peg carbon forks: an edge cross fork will be 450 grams whereas most carbon canti forks seem to be about 650 grams. carbon disc forks are about 650 gram too.

i assume you will never build with discs, richard?

[e-RICHIE]

I would say yes.

All-in, I would say that the bike would weigh at least a couple of pounds more with disks. BB7 Road disks (with rotors) are 660 grams per bike vs TRP EuroX cantis at 240 grams per bike. Plus the hubs will be heavier. King Iso Disk hubs are about 500 grams a pair vs 315 grams a pair for their R45 hubs or 350 grams for a 240s set. Plus heavier fork blades. Plus rear disk mount. Plus longer cables and housing. It adds up quick.

that's what i thought - thanks.
so, i dunno how to say this so that i am not wearing it around my neck someday, but i hope i
am so far away from the sport when the day comes that these bicycles with discs are ubiquitous
in the elite ranks. i understand the industry's need to sell, and their lobbying power with the
weaklings who acquiesced to this rule "change", but i think it sucks. no one complains about
braking in 'cross, and knowing how to use them (brakes) is part of the tactile sense that makes
a racer what he is. it's been a good long run. but now the sport is smaller for having caved to
firms who simply need a wider market atmo. will the discs help? dunno. do i care? no.

[e-RICHIE]

as it relates to off the peg carbon forks: an edge cross fork will be 450 grams whereas most carbon canti forks seem to be about 650 grams. carbon disc forks are about 650 gram too.

my steel forks weigh less than that.

i assume you will never build with discs, richard?

of course not atmo.
i do what i want, not what they want.

[Chance Legstrong]

FUGLY.

When Nys, Stybar, Wellens; et al (Latin for badass cx racers) show up with discs is the day I stop racing CX

[Saab2000]

FUGLY.

When Nys, Stybar, Wellens; et al (Latin for badass cx racers) show up with discs is the day I stop racing CX

Really? What if it's part of their sponsorship?

If the technology is better it'll catch on. If it's not, it will fade away.

I don't race cross (though I watched first hand the highest level cross racing in the world during my years in Switzerland) but those here who do are not sold on the idea. That's good enough for me. I have no dog in this fight.
But maybe it'll evolve and improve because now it's allowed and before it wasn't.

Let's see in a few years where this is. It may just fade away, like double discs in time trials, which while flashy and cool, was really not much of a great idea. Or it may evolve into something worthwhile.

[Curt Goodrich]

I don't have an issue with disc brakes. If somebody wants them, fine. That said, I prefer cantis. There are some things in my life that I draw a line in the sand and pick a side. This isn't one of those. Doesn't make for good reality TV though.

[Gradient]

For future upgradeability, how much weight do rear disc brake tabs and reinforced stays add to a new build?

Also, what consideration should be given as to whether retrofit disc brake tabs on an older steel frame?

[mjbabcock]

I understand the desire to keep the lightweight, elegant canti brakes on cross bikes, but I am sold on discs after switching to them on the MTB ten years back. They don't have to have the on/off modulation of the old hayes brakes. They don't have to weigh a ton either. The wheels have been proven to hold up in MTB conditions and shifting breaking away from the rim would open up all sorts of options for rims as it has for disc rims. I have a 355 gram 29'er rim that is plenty strong and can only imagine a lightweight tubular rim designed for discs. We've managed to integrate new technologies in the form of brake/shift levers and clipless pedals over barend shifters and clips and straps.

[zank]

For future upgradeability, how much weight do rear disc brake tabs and reinforced stays add to a new build?

Also, what consideration should be given as to whether retrofit disc brake tabs on an older steel frame?

Why are disks considered an upgrade?

Wall thickness and diameter of seat stays and fork blades are one consideration.

[Archibald]

I think Zanc hit the nail on the head. I'm all for discs and I think there is a lot of room for "road/cross specific" component weight reduction compared to the latest greatest MTB disc versions but rim brakes are always going to be a lighter setup. A light steel cross fork for disc brakes is going to weigh around 800-850 grams. I'm sure someone will make a lighter one, but I sure as hell wouldn't ride it; I'm too pretty to suffer massive facial trauma. Most modern MTB disc brakes are truly excellent: stopping power, modulation, function, you name it and they work an order of magnitude better than the very best v-brakes in trying conditions. But if all that is not necessary for cross racing, then why bother?

[critpix]

I think a big plus to a wider selection of disc-equipped cross bikes will come when those bikes get ridden on the roads. Lots of people here buy cross bikes for winter riding, and cantis can leave something to be desired when it's sloppy outside and coming to a stop actually matters.

[suspectdevice]

One of my riders is currently out riding mtb trails on a singlespeed CX bike that weighs around 13 pounds with 2 season old all metal parts and tubeless 285 gram aluminum clinchers rims w/Ultegra hubs(The wheels are on their 3rd season this year).

Bombproof 565 gram carbon 29'r forks already exist and eliminating the braking surface on rims has the ability to make rims both lighter and stronger. Incremental improvements in design and strength to weight ratio could give us disc equipped CX bikes at the legal weight limit in less(or far less) than two model years depending on where(if) the products are in the development cycle right now.

There is a really big weight difference right now w/canti's v. discs on road/cross bikes just like there used to be in the early years of MTB discs. These days disc setups are lighter than almost any V-brake outfit you can get and there is room for lots more optimization yet.

I'm just saying...

[Chance Legstrong]

Really? What if it's part of their sponsorship?

If the technology is better it'll catch on. If it's not, it will fade away.

I don't race cross (though I watched first hand the highest level cross racing in the world during my years in Switzerland) but those here who do are not sold on the idea. That's good enough for me. I have no dog in this fight.
But maybe it'll evolve and improve because now it's allowed and before it wasn't.

Let's see in a few years where this is. It may just fade away, like double discs in time trials, which while flashy and cool, was really not much of a great idea. Or it may evolve into something worthwhile.

we had this talk over the weekend. Right now, there are no LW alternatives that are market ready. if the PROs show up with something it will be a "one-off" design that is 2-3 seasons away from becoming "mortal ready".
i am still convinced that you do not need discs for racing cross. i said racing, not playing cross on the weekends.
if your canti's are set-up reasonably well you are good to go.
good bike drivers are good bike drivers regardless of what brakes they are using.
shod some awesome tires on your bikes run appropriate psi
learn how to drive your bike
brakes are gravy

[anthonymaietta]

no one complains about
braking in 'cross, and knowing how to use them (brakes) is part of the tactile sense that makes
a racer what he is.

Wasn't there a pretty serious thread on heree last season about how canti's suck and v-brakes were the way. It escapes me who started it.

[Jonathan]

If shimano or SRAM had some groups to give to me for my team I'd whore out as fast or faster than the next guy.

[Gradient]

Why are disks considered an upgrade?

Sorry, bad choice of words, given the tenor of this thread. I am actually a canti guy (old XT) but am considering making the change for an old steel tourer and mtb frame.

[bellman]

Wasn't there a pretty serious thread on heree last season about how canti's suck and v-brakes were the way. It escapes me who started it.

Hee- hee-hee, You guys must be good friends..... Besides, that was so last year.

[Chance Legstrong]

If shimano or SRAM had some groups to give to me for my team I'd whore out as fast or faster than the next guy.

when did you start working for USAC?