All in a name...

[GrantM]

A pal I used to work with called me with some Campag questions this week.
He's got a client with an incoming lugged steel frame from a custom builder,
and wants to build it "with all silver Campagnolo parts".

So i tell him to order up some centaur alloy stuff, and point him to some
sources for the seat post, alloy version of the rear der, and explain how
the 09 new shifters differ from the previous ones, and how the 06 alloy
one's have the 'good' mechanism.

It's a no go. The client is miffed that he even suggested "centaur"...
"what? you saying my frame isn't good enough for Record!!!"
The guy seemed insulted. My pal back tracks a bit, calls me again...
"Can't you come up with some of the good alloy record stuff for him???"
he begs.

I had a hard time explaining what the actual differences would be between
the pre carbon era Record stuff, and the last few years Centaur alloy would
actually be. Finish quality? nope. Weight? nope. Performance? nope.
Besides the few ti bolts, and a bit on machining on the right crank arm,
the biggest construction difference is the brakes don't have a blind centerbolt.
Chainrings and chain are identical, and quite a few small parts share the
exact same code numbers.

Anyway, thought maybe you'd enjoy some pics I 'rounded up for him,
we'll see if his client is truly interested in paying 4 to 5 times the price
for different logos. The fact that there is no 10 speed alloy Record rear der
leads me to believe the guy would pay a premium for an inferior 9 speed
drivetrain because it says "record" on it...

-g

[GrantM]

other pics

[e-RICHIE]

oh the irony atmo.

[MIN]

Very interesting Grant.

I guess it's apples to apples until it says 11 on it.

[Saab2000]

I've always liked having as much Record stuff on my bike as possible. Name snob. But my Zanconato is going to a mix, including Centaur cranks (with Record rings, just 'cuz they look cool), Chorus shifters and a Centaur rear der.

I don't expect to get dropped because of the less than Record stuff.

Good find on the rear der BTW. I actually like the lines of the pre-10 speed rear ders a bit better than the newer ones. But I guess the new ones work better with 10-speed levers.

Anyway, some of the silver stuff with Record names on it is absurdly expensive if you can find it at all. There are Record Ergo levers in the last shape but they are 9-speed. Modifiable if you absolutely positively need the name Record on it. But I doubt there is any difference at all between them and the newer Chorus metal ones, not even Ti fasteners.

Personally, I've always liked the Ti bolts and fasteners just because they won't develop surface rust. But really, there's no difference at all.

Edit - where did you find those Record levers? Are they 9-speed? To be modified?

[maunahaole]

If he really wants to be separated from his money that badly, why shouldn't it be you that does it? Ask for a significant markup due to the rarity of the bits.

[riceburner]

Easy solution. The guy asked for "silver." Have a custom painter spray all the Record 11 carbon parts in a silver metallic.

[GrantM]

Edit - where did you find those Record levers? Are they 9-speed? To be modified?

Yes, they are 1998 alloy Record 9 speed levers.
The ratchets in those work with the previous generation
rear derailleur geometry (which as you mentioned, looks cool)
They could have the ratchet rings changed for 10,
but i'm waiting until my J.P.Weigle spot comes up,
and i'll decide how to set it up.

Where? I'll never say... (ok, it was ebay a few years ago for less than $200...)

[Rodador]

All this talk is convincing me that I should be buying a silver Centaur group before the stuff goes away -- and I don't even need a new group. You are all enablers.

[GrantM]

If he really wants to be separated from his money that badly, why shouldn't it be you that does it? Ask for a significant markup due to the rarity of the bits.

I likely would... mostly for the challenge of seeing it done right,
but the client isn't mine, he's dealing with my bro.


-g

[GrantM]

All this talk is convincing me that I should be buying a silver Centaur group before the stuff goes away -- and I don't even need a new group. You are all enablers.

Every season I see stuff blown out at wholesale because it's now obsolete junk...

Not so long ago, I came across a batch of the centaur ergo shifters for $69.99
(and that's canadian $ !) The market is the market... most of this stuff is totally
lost on the mainstream. Newest is the bestest ever, even when it's more of the same.
Sorry to taunt y'all with those finds.... keep your eyes peeled out there. Deals happen.


-g

[rydesteel]

Grant, the Centaur stuff is obviously inferior please send to my address to be disposed of properly ;>). Other than a set of silver Chorus ergo levers I chanced into everything on my Goodrich is Centaur.

[rphetteplace]

grant-
what do you mean the 06 have the good mechanism?

[steve garro]

people will kill over NOS Deore XT thumbshifters..........they are freakin' sweet.

[GrantM]

grant-
what do you mean the 06 have the good mechanism?

some people don't like the feel of "escape" version that was on the 2007 carbon blade centaur
levers, the ones with the "QS" logo.

The alloy Centaur levers from 2002 to 2006 have the same function as the chorus
and record levers, just with a bushing instead of a bearing on the main pivot.

-g

[dookie]

Not so long ago, I came across a batch of the centaur ergo shifters for $69.99 (and that's canadian $ !)...

dang!

buy one for me next time, please.

[Mr.President]

I love that all of you dig the silver bits. If you need a place to send your carbon 10spd stuff I'll pm you my address.

I will out myself and say I love it, carbon is so pretty and I'll happily take it all off of your hands so you can be all silvery!

Your welcome!

[mschol17]

Why not Athena 11 speed? Do they not have alloy shifters yet?

[72gmc]

I am one of those apparent Philistines who isn't turned off by the QS. When I compare the 2003 Centaur ergos I had to the 2007 Centaur ergos I have, the only thing I notice is that the carbon blades don't feel as cold for half the year. What I wish I could find are more of the 2003-2006 Centaur hubs....

[GrantM]

Why not Athena 11 speed? Do they not have alloy shifters yet?

Athena shifters are carbon wrapped,
but there is an alloy blade in there somewhere.
As to why someone wouldn't want it... well there are 3 'better'
grouppos in the catalog...

The Athena rings are a downgrade from the earlier Centaur,
as is the front derailleur cage. Lots of the Centaur small
parts were indistinguishable from Record or Chorus, because
in the past, Campagnolo never made specific group sub-parts.
(all front derailleurs shared the same band, etc.)

Originally, all 10 speed groups used the same chain and 39T
inner ring, becuase they decided to only produce 1 version.
So all groups had a 'record' chain.

As the production grew, over time they expanded offerings at different
price points. Some groups that had shared assemblies with the
higher end parts got downgraded.

A funny aside... 2009 "Super-Record" brakes have some ti hardware,
that's the main diff from the 2009 basic "record" brakeset.
But back in 2006, all the hardware on the record brakes was ti.
In 2007 when the "skeleton" brakes came out, nobody seemed
to notice all the ti hardware was gone, even though a "Titanium"
logo was on the brake!

-g