Singapore Business? Is it a scam?

[Slapshot]

Lately I have been getting some inquiries from Singapore. They almost sound legit, but my gut
tells me that its a scam...

Anyone dealt with these types of transactions in the recent past and are they legit or a scam of some sort?

DW

[zank]

I only answer emails from far away lands if they ask a real question that I know pertains to my bikes. I don't answer the ones that say "Before i ask questions, can you tell me if you do business overseas? I can pay with a credit card."

[crumpton]

they always seem to want to order a bike but need the group right away and want to pay by CC. scam. i have shipped 3 bikes to singapore now and they have all carried out like normal sales. its the CC and "need teh group now" that you want to avoid.

[Archibald]

Yep, if they don't know anything about your product and ask it you take CC's in their introductory email, it's a scam.

[Thylacine Cycles]

Don't even assume they're from Singapore. Can't even begin to describe how easy it is to cloak an email address.

Advise above is sound. No knowledge of your business and insistence on card payment, then it's a scam.

[Carl S]

Take a deposit. It'll be months before they get a frame. If it's a scam you'll find out long before you start construction. Like Don and Zank said, if they ask the right questions it's probably legit if not stay away. The one thing I wouldn't do is refund, in any form, any money that you take as a deposit until you KNOW you were paid by a legitimate means. The Asian market is huge and I think they are really developing an appetite for US bespoke frames. I sell more frames to Asian (especially Malaysia) customers every year. Have you seen that cycling mag called "Asian Cycling"? It's a huge glossy periodical that would make any US rag look like a pamphlet.

[steve garro]

I sent one to Singapore & one to Osaka last year. If the deposit clears........ - Garro.

[edoz]

I'm curious, how's the scam work? I'm assuming the builder ends up not getting paid somehow, right?

[Clockwork]

Even if the check is excepted by your bank and funds show up in your account, it doesn't mean you're in the clear. The bank itself may not know if the check they accepted is good for another 3-4 weeks. They will take the money back out of you account if they discover they've accepted a bad check, even if it's weeks later.

-Joel

[edoz]

Even if the check is excepted by your bank and funds show up in your account, it doesn't mean you're in the clear. The bank itself may not know if the check they accepted is good for another 3-4 weeks. They will take the money back out of you account if they discover they've accepted a bad check, even if it's weeks later.

-Joel

Very true, I had a roommate that got suckered in by that exact thing. He deposited the check, and when the funds hit his account he figured all was cool and pulled the money out and went straight to Western Union. The check was mailed to him stamped 'counterfeit' a week later. The bank wanted their money, and he'd sent it to Africa. All this after we warned him:(

[EricKeller]

this scam is based on credit cards, but I think the same principle applies.

[e.Gellie]

I got one from a person calling themselves Efro, using email address jangkrik@gutenshop.com
Googling that came up with other references to scams by Efro and other similar names xxxx@gutenshop.com ....trying to buy jewelery as well.

The first email is below...and in later emails he didn't even respond to me asking what size, what details of the bike he wanted, me telling him the waiting period ..... he just wanted a total price with shipping.....
-----
Hello Sir,
Thanks for you cosnfirmation, I want to order from you product :
- Singlespeed MTB of Columbus Zona, fillet-brazed, with S-bend stays. Frame weight 1.9 kg painted
Please let me know the total cost include shipping and handling to Singapore
and i'll send my credit card to payment,
I waitng for you early reply soon,
Regards,
Efro
---------
then after I suggested he read and understand the Ordering Process which includes 5-8 weeks delivery, he replied
---------
Hi Ewen,
I am sorry for late reply,
How about with my order?
the goods ready to ship?
If ready I'll send y credit card detail,
Efro
-----

Cheers,
Ewen

[e.Gellie]

Hey Steve and Carl, mind sharing how you arranged payment for those O.S. sales? Paypal? Credit-card? Something else?
Cheers,
Ewen

[crumpton]

i'm not steve or carl but i only do wire x-fers on OS sales.

[Carl S]

I take credit card, PayPal of wire transfer. I have a relationship with all my customers so I can get a feel for them pretty early on. If I don't feel like I trust them I make sure to talk with them usually via Skype and once their deposit is made I put them to work gathering data. I figure if they're scamming me they aren't going to bother sending me all their body and bike measurements. Because I won't even be starting their bike for several months I assume that if there is a fraud I'll know it before I start building. I also know how most of the frauds work and it's pretty obvious when things are fishy.

[steve garro]

I take credit card, PayPal of wire transfer. I have a relationship with all my customers so I can get a feel for them pretty early on. If I don't feel like I trust them I make sure to talk with them usually via Skype and once their deposit is made I put them to work gathering data. I figure if they're scamming me they aren't going to bother sending me all their body and bike measurements. Because I won't even be starting their bike for several months I assume that if there is a fraud I'll know it before I start building. I also know how most of the frauds work and it's pretty obvious when things are fishy.

yep, 100%. i've also had customers have the american branch of their bank issue me a $$ order. - Garro.

[e.Gellie]

Thanks guys for the payment-method info.

Yeah Carl, I definitely wasn't feeling the love for my product from that 'Singapore' enquiry!

Ewen

[Thylacine Cycles]

Yeah, it's worth investing a bit of CS in all enquiries. It soon all sorts itself out......man, I've had enquiries from places in SE Asia and the Carribean that sounded dodgy as hell on face value, but after a few exchanges turned out completely legit.

Carl, Malaysia would be a fantastic place to go riding. The roads are terrific, burgeoning middle class, population the size of Australia.....probably the best, cheapest, tastiest food in the world.....

If I were you more established higher volume guys, I'd be actively targeting many of the more 'affluent' SE Asian countries.

Heck, China's middle class is the size of the entire US population.

[conorb]

Here's a copy of the email I received a couple of days ago:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sir or madam,

My name is Watono Cheung from Singapore. I've been looking your advertisement in the internet and I want to make an order from your company but I don't know whether you accept an International Order from Singapore. If you do, I will use my credit card for payment of my order, for those I will responsible for the fees include shipping cost, tax and handling for ship my order to Singapore via USPS or UPS International Priority.

I think that wouldn't be a problem as I am sure that you have a merchant account to accept credit card payment, but once again, I just want to make sure. Please respond immediately, so I can start ordering. I am waiting for your early reply and I hope we can make a good deal.

Yours Trully,
Watono Cheung
Singapore
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have done business overseas - both to England and Singapore. The best way is to do a Bank Wire Transfer. You can call your bank and get routing numbers for either international or US and then give that information to the prospective client.

We're not setup to take credit cards directly and normally use Paypal for folks that want to do a c.c. transaction.

I have heard stories about folks getting forged Bank Wires but the banks are very good about sorting those things out before they ever get to you. Plus there are other laws regarding Bank Wires but I don't know them all off the top of my head. Overall, though, the Bank Wire is probably the best method to deal internationally.

Conor

[Eric Estlund]

Word for word I received that email a couple of days ago. That guy is going to have one hell of a collection.