Paint Markers Under Clearcoat

[Craig Ryan]

I mentioned I was going to experiment with using markers while painting. There have been several examples recently thanks to Tim, Mickey, and Tony. I went into it hoping my idea would work, but not really having high expectations.I drew this little Kermit playing the banjo as an emblem on the seattube. Kermit's head is 10mm.
Primer is PPG - DPLF
Next was white Deltron DBU
The green of Kermit was sprayed DBU with a mask.
I then used marking pens to paint in the rest.
The blue is DecoColor
The red is Sakura Permapaque
Black is Sharpie Paint
I also wrote on the frame with a silver Sharpie Paint in 40 places with the names of the Muppet Show cast.
After doing all my color work, I let it dry about 15 hours before shooting it with PPG DC 3000 clear.

The paint pens go on a bit difficult because of the texture of the base layer, but they do go down. I was hoping they would be smoother after application, but a bike frame isn't like a piece of cardboard. Initially after shooting my first coats of clear it looked good. Within an hour it started to buckle and looked terrible. I thought it was all a wash at that time, so went ahead and sanded just to see what would happen. It's strange, but after sanding it seemed to lay back down. I'm not exactly sure what was going on, possibly the clear is what was buckling up, not the color below it. I went ahead and shot more clear and it ended up flattening down like I wanted. There are remnants of the early cracking in the upper right section of blue sky. I'm not sure why it cracked there, but it's interesting the section where I had a broad section of color cracked. Areas where I painted in thinner lines or shapes did not react.

For me, it was a good learning experience. If I were in a position where I was selling this paintwork I would think twice about doing it again. Some of the pens are acrylic based, and I used some of those also I think. I just bought the pens which best matched the color I was after. Maybe if the paint was allowed to dry longer it would behave better, but I wanted to get my clear on the frame as soon as possible after my color. I don't know how to get around that one. I think it may be better to stick to the acrylic pens, or mix up regular basecoat and apply it with a scriptwriter or other ways. I hope others experiment more with this, I find it really interesting. I have photos below from various points in the process.
Craig

[e-RICHIE]

that's cool.
i like it atmo.

[gltapley]

Your work is really neat. I was pretty impressed by it, great ideas! What you experienced is called lifting in the world of paint. I think that you used a catalysed clear urethane paint. Sometimes because of the solvents/catalysts/activators it can cause acrylics and enamels to lift. Maybe if you had used a clear enamel with a hardener like some kind of stripping clear...thinking One Shot over the artwork, it might not have crackled. A lot of times if you are using a lot of different kinds of paint acrylics, enamels, water based, urethanes it is a good idea to seal things so that underlayers don't lift.

It is amazing how many layers of clear guys who do art work on cars or motorcycles use...3 layers of clear over pretty much each different color of paint, either a graphic or strips.

Just thinking...I wouldn't give up just maybe use an old sign panel and practice see what works well with what...

[dbohemian]

I have done what you did there.

You have to lock down your color first with a catalyzed clear. Then sand, then paint, then more clear.

example:





The other thing is that those paint markers are really low quality. Especially sharpies. The black will fade in about a month in the sun (in Arizona we find that out quick)

Posca pens are the ticket. Rare here, but get them straight from Japan on eBay. Worth it.

Drew Brophy is the GOD of painting with pens...He uses poscas. Wish I had this much talent.

[Craig Ryan]

Thanks for the input and suggestions. Everything both of you said makes sense. Dave, I ordered some Posca pens and will begin experimenting.
Craig

[Taylor]

I've wanted to do something along the same lines, maybe a bit more abstract, like visible brush strokes with a perfect clear coat. Has anyone seen what Pegoretti's process is? Always reminds me of the BMW art cars.

[gltapley]

Maybe I am dating myself a bit here but years ago, like 16 or 19 years ago Leni Freid did some frames for Fat Chance that had ocean or sky motives on them...The lower on the frame the more the creatures in the paint resembled stuff from the oceans depths. The higher up on the frame the more stuff represented what lived on the surface of the ocean. The base paint also went from a very dark blue/almost black on the lower part of the frame to a light blue on the top. The frame representing the Earth and sky looked very similar. The paint looked like it had some brush strokes to some of it just to give the various creatures the right look but it was all buried under clear. As I mentioned earlier and Dave Bohm did too make sure you bury artwork under a catalyzed clear and use paints that won't lift. Xotic, HOK both make high pigment stipping paints that are enamel urethanes and should work well under clears.

[Craig Ryan]

I took Dave's advise and sourced out some Posca markers. They were inexpensive, arrived in a day or so, and seem to be a high quality product. I took a frame and experimented. The photo below is the markers under clearcoat. All seems good with them. Thanks! Oh, I had basecoat colors of red and green on this piece, so the broad areas aren't the markers, only the linework.

[Thylacine Cycles]

Posca pens are the ticket. Rare here, but get them straight from Japan on eBay. Worth it.

Drew Brophy is the GOD of painting with pens...He uses poscas. Wish I had this much talent.

Poscas are water-based though aren't they Dave? At least the ones I had in my *ahem* youthful graffiti days were.

No issues with using them on clear, with PU clear over?

[dbohemian]

Poscas are water-based though aren't they Dave? At least the ones I had in my *ahem* youthful graffiti days were.

No issues with using them on clear, with PU clear over?

Man! Craig that turned out awesome!

W....They are water based but if you let them dry well they seem unaffected by poly-u clears. Hard to describe on the net but they actually go down like real paint....Not some watered down product. Fun as heck to work with, you feel like a kid again just drawing away. Many people do not realize that although the entire paint industry is moving to water based there is still not a good water based clear and they are all designed to be polyurethane top coated.

BTW. Water borne does not really mean what people think. Yes, the base solvent is predominantly water but there is a fair bit of alcohol, acetone and other lovely's in there also.

[Thylacine Cycles]

Man, that's awesome. Dario better watch out, I tell ya!

[edoz]

If I send you a frame, will you do Fozzie Bear? ;)