Drafting for dropouts (and other frame related items)

[bellman]

Can any of you recomend a simple 2D drafting program that could generate a file that could be read by a waterjet or lazer or cnc routing machine? I've looked around some and tried a few free copies of stuff but most of them are graphic arts or construction oriented. I downloade a free trial of auto cad but after trying some others I am a little intimidated by it and not sure I want to go there. Do any of you have experience with this?
Thanks, Jake

[vulture]

For the price, turbo cad is great, I taught myself how to use it 10 years ago and it is still useful, I can use autocad but for what I do I can use Turbo Cad quicker. I know a dude that uses google sketch up which is free I think and has a DXF output.

[bellman]

I'll check out turbo cad, thanks. I'm trying to use sketch up right now but not having much luck. I'll try a little harder.

[Tom Kellogg]

I have been using AutoCAD for years and of course it has an incredible range of capabilities, but the learning curve isn't just steep, it is vertical. If you can take the time to learn the basics, that is all you will need to do for what you are doing. Unless you have the time, go with something like TurboCAD.

[themanmonkey]

Here's a place online that is kinda one stop shopping for machining work Emachineshop. I haven't used them, but I know some folks that have and seem to be happy. They have their own software that is Windows only so I haven't been able to even give it a try.

[Dazza]

Can any of you recomend a simple 2D drafting program that could generate a file that could be read by a waterjet or lazer or cnc routing machine? I've looked around some and tried a few free copies of stuff but most of them are graphic arts or construction oriented. I downloade a free trial of auto cad but after trying some others I am a little intimidated by it and not sure I want to go there. Do any of you have experience with this?
Thanks, Jake

It is mistake to just get a trial program and then try to use it with out any prior knowledge of how CAD works.
You will be presented with a bewildering array of tools
Get the program, and get the text book to go with it. Cheap nasty CAD programs have lousy technical writting so the help button and text books are BAD.
I am with TOM, AutoCAD is good and they have good books to go with it.
I think learning the basics of AutoCAD is some thing this terribly useful. Buy the big book, sit down and go through it.
CAD is really getting one's head to relearn the pencil to paper style process we all have to new way of doing it. At first it is frustrating but then it clicks.
In fact I would go as far as skip the AutoCAD 2 D and go straight to 3D parametric. The 2D drawings are there and easier I reckon! {I use Solid Works}

[VertigoCycles]

It is mistake to just get a trial program and then try to use it with out any prior knowledge of how CAD works.
You will be presented with a bewildering array of tools
Get the program, and get the text book to go with it. Cheap nasty CAD programs have lousy technical writting so the help button and text books are BAD.
I am with TOM, AutoCAD is good and they have good books to go with it.
I think learning the basics of AutoCAD is some thing this terribly useful. Buy the big book, sit down and go through it.
CAD is really getting one's head to relearn the pencil to paper style process we all have to new way of doing it. At first it is frustrating but then it clicks.
In fact I would go as far as skip the AutoCAD 2 D and go straight to 3D parametric. The 2D drawings are there and easier I reckon! {I use Solid Works}

Dazza, did you have any trouble going from AutoCAD to SolidWorks? I've had a hell of a time making the switch after years and years with AutoCAD.

[Dazza]

Dazza, did you have any trouble going from AutoCAD to SolidWorks? I've had a hell of a time making the switch after years and years with AutoCAD.

Yes a little bit ,
I liken it to driving right hand drive cars all your life and then switching to left hand drive cars with travel/ work over seas
but after you do it a few times it is sorted
and then the switch becomes automatic between SW and AutoCAD

but get the BOOK
Start at the front and go, before doing anything with it.
It is important to take the time to get one's head around it.
3D parametric modeling is so easy compared to all the other older 3D styles. {it is a 2D drawing, extended and expanded upon}
My book was given to me some time ago and as you can see it is well used and still used
and it is well written
by good technical writers, not by frustrating Computer Geeks {MaryAnn is a technical writter so I know understand why this is important}

[bellman]

It is mistake to just get a trial program and then try to use it with out any prior knowledge of how CAD works.
You will be presented with a bewildering array of tools
Get the program, and get the text book to go with it. Cheap nasty CAD programs have lousy technical writting so the help button and text books are BAD.
I am with TOM, AutoCAD is good and they have good books to go with it.
I think learning the basics of AutoCAD is some thing this terribly useful. Buy the big book, sit down and go through it.
CAD is really getting one's head to relearn the pencil to paper style process we all have to new way of doing it. At first it is frustrating but then it clicks.
In fact I would go as far as skip the AutoCAD 2 D and go straight to 3D parametric. The 2D drawings are there and easier I reckon! {I use Solid Works}

Got it, no shortcuts. :-)

As it sits now, I've found a guy to turn my sketches into a usable file which will cover me for the short term but I have some forced downtime coming up in the near future and could easily see digesting a manual or two.

Thanks, Jake

[Rody]

bellman,

I just gotta jump in and reinforce...Go big or go home :)

Learning a 3D solid modeling program is literally a life long experience, as each day I learn new ways of approaching a problem and increasing my efficiency. However, once you become proficient, it will save you many hours in the shop down the road.

I personally endorse Solidworks, as it has more capability that we'll ever use for bicycle/fixture fabrication, but also has a fairly easy learning curve to get to a mildly productive state. Like most, it will be able to generate scale prints, DXF files, and IGES files for CNC info, so all those dreams can quickly become a reality.

I've added a link to a fairly recent blog post where I created dropout files much like you are desiring to do...

http://groovycycleworks.blogspot.com...uly-means.html

cheers,

rody

[bellman]

Thanks Rody,
A fellow Vsalonista has kindly offered up a copy of the Autocad manual which I think is tremendous and i'm looking forward to reading it as the first step towards learning this stuff.
I followed your link to check out the dropouts, Those are awsome! kind of timely for me as well. The project that has sparked my interest in the cad stuff is remarkedly similar to what you have going there. I am at the cycletruck phase of my framebuilding journey, I know its a little cliche but hey, it's my trip, i'm digging it :-). Heres some pics.

I appreciate everyones clear views and opinions on this subject, I don't even want to guess at how much time this has saved me.

Best regards,
Jake

[Alistair]

Interesting thread. I'm using Autocad for 2D drafting right now (frame design, fixture design) after slogging through the phone book sized manual a few years back. As far as the 3D parametric drafting programs (Solidworks, Pro E, Rhino, Alibre etc.) go, how much do these things cost? Specifically, for Solidworks (this one seems to be the most popular), am I correct in thinking that you buy an annual license, or as I've heard it referred to "a seed"?
I'd interested in learning something like Solidworks but I'm wondering how much it costs?
Thanks for any information on this.

Alistair.
Seattle, WA.

[Dazza]

Interesting thread. I'm using Autocad for 2D drafting right now (frame design, fixture design) after slogging through the phone book sized manual a few years back. As far as the 3D parametric drafting programs (Solidworks, Pro E, Rhino, Alibre etc.) go, how much do these things cost? Specifically, for Solidworks (this one seems to be the most popular), am I correct in thinking that you buy an annual license, or as I've heard it referred to "a seed"?
I'd interested in learning something like Solidworks but I'm wondering how much it costs?
Thanks for any information on this.

Alistair.
Seattle, WA.

I have no idea, but older superceded ones are cheaper. I got mine when it was 3 years out of date.
Give em a call or google em

[EricKeller]

I'd interested in learning something like Solidworks but I'm wondering how much it costs?
Thanks for any information on this.

Alistair.
Seattle, WA.

I asked how much it would cost last year. This is from memory, because the only quote I got was for an educational license. A full license was $4k U.S. If you get Cosmoworks so you can do FEM and other analysis, it would be $8k. The maintenance fees were about $1k a year. Maintenance is optional, but I'm pretty sure if you have a problem they make you pay maintenance until you're caught up. I figure I could probably make money with the full package, but I'm not sure how to find a customer base, so I'm too scared to lay out the money.

[Alistair]

I have no idea, but older superceded ones are cheaper. I got mine when it was 3 years out of date.
Give em a call or google em

Dazza,

thanks. I had figured the same thing, pick up an older set of disks off Ebay. Whenever I've searched there all I seem to find is tutorials and manuals, not the actual software itself. Not sure why this is.
Ultimately you're right. I should just contact Solidworks directly and ask. I haven't done it yet because I've only recently started to feel the need for drawing in 3D. That, and the impression that I've gotten about how expensive a new copy of the program is.

Alistair.

[EricKeller]

Dazza,

thanks. I had figured the same thing, pick up an older set of disks off Ebay. .

I don't imagine a license is transferable. Ebay is relatively efficient at limiting the sales of dubious versions of $4000 software. People say decent things about Rhino

[vulture]

To the orig Q, Turbo Cad, good price, quick to learn( icon based like windows) quick to use, simple templates and converts files easy. I have work experience with A-cad and Mastercam and Gibbs. If you have the time you can learn A cad but I still find it cumbersome and when you email a dxf to the waterjet cutter he doesn't want any extra B.S. Bellman, since you live in OR if you are ever in Bendor I can line you up and have you drawing DOs in an hour and ready to email. If you want to build multi part products or complex ed stuff take an A cad class at the local college it will increase your speed of learning. Also beware of pirated copies of Auto Cad, they are common in the machining world but they wont make your computer happy and you wont get service. This happened to my friend by the way, really.