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Thread: Bike 0001

  1. #1
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Bike 0001

    Okay Velocipedists...here goes something:

    This is going to be my thread for building my first frame from scratch.
    I will include pics,commentary,footnotes, and a lot of long pauses throughout the build.

    At this point my lugs are on the way,(thanks Richard Sachs)
    and I've been working up my (sic) geometry for a UOS road frame.

    I don't expect to jump out of the gate with any likeliness to that of a pro-frame builder.
    My goal (short term) is to build A FRAME.
    If it turns out complete and usable...then cool...if not, then I'll do another one...learning from my mistakes.
    This is MY BIKE.
    When the quality and characteristics match or exceed what I'm riding now...
    (out-of-the-box mass production carbon framed, ceramic bearing fitted, aftermarket wheel infused typical roadbike)
    I'll then paint and build up MY new ride, and ride the effing wheels off it.

    This forum has given me the knowledge to allow my autodidactic nature to take over,
    yet this place (and it's builders) humble my realistic side...and show me that there is much to be learned.
    A balance of ego and inquisition.

    I shall seek info, aid, advice...and occasionally require a pat on the back, an occasional golf-clap, and at times a brisk shovel to the teeth.

    I like metal, I like to cut and file metal, and I like to take pictures of cutting and filing metal.

    <turns up 'Dead and Bloated' from STP and walks out to the shop.>

    -Luke
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  2. #2
    e-RICHIE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Hey Luke - thanks for doing this, especially unprompted atmo.

  3. #3
    edoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    When the quality and characteristics match or exceed what I'm riding now...
    (out-of-the-box mass production carbon framed, ceramic bearing fitted, aftermarket wheel infused typical roadbike)
    So "rides like a fencepost and looks like everyone else's" is your benchmark? ;)

    Seriously, have fun. It'll be a blast and it will probably turn out just fine and you'll love riding it. Now get to work!
    Eric Doswell, aka Edoz
    Summoner of Crickets
    http://edozbicycles.wordpress.com/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/edozbicycles/
    In Before the Lock

  4. #4
    Pi Guy is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Luke, this will be cool to follow. You are going to LOVE that first ride on frame #1...even if it is a POS :)
    Jason Henkle
    flickr

  5. #5
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    Hey Luke - thanks for doing this, especially unprompted atmo.
    My pleasure...I hope it's interesting enough to look back upon from time to time.
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  6. #6
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by edoz View Post
    So "rides like a fencepost and looks like everyone else's" is your benchmark? ;)

    Seriously, have fun. It'll be a blast and it will probably turn out just fine and you'll love riding it. Now get to work!
    So true...thanks for checking in!
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  7. #7
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by Pi Guy View Post
    Luke, this will be cool to follow. You are going to LOVE that first ride on frame #1...even if it is a POS :)
    The first ride WILL be awesome...I even get that feeling from time to time on a bike build up. When a customer brings a new frame set, and I order the group,wheels, etc.etc...
    and then get the first ride. It's like giving birth without the cosmic tear in my perineum!
    I cant wait.
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  8. #8
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Bike geometry 0001.jpg

    This is my rough geometry.
    This is done up on Googlesketch, with my backyard CAD ability.

    Some of the numbers are calculated by known measurements...
    ( i.e effective TT length of what I ride now is 550mm, with a 100mm stem. Factory was a 110mm, tried 90mm...felt short, and cut a few mm's
    off my handle bar drops to save my scraped knees while climbing. Settled on a 100mm. I would like something 'in between'. Hence the 547mm)

    Some of the numbers are results of plugging the other numbers in, and pulling diminisons.

    My tire clearance is tight at this point...would like about 360mm. I haven't drawn this to scale yet.

    Opinions at this point???

    Luke
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  9. #9
    Craig Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Luke, what are you plans for a fork? Do you have a crown height yet?

  10. #10
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Ryan View Post
    Luke, what are you plans for a fork? Do you have a crown height yet?
    I believe I will go with an ENVE 1.0 composite fork, here are the specs:

    S.H.I.S. Clamp Diameter: 28.6
    Crown Race: 30.0
    Steerer Type: Straight
    Steerer Tube Length: 300.0 mm
    Fork Rake: 45 mm
    Axle to Crown Length: 367 mm
    Front Axle Type: 9x1
    Wheel Size: 700c
    Wheel Mount Center Offset: 0 mm
    Front Hub Spacing: 100 mm
    Brake Type : Road Caliper - Short Reach - 39-49mm
    Brake Usage F/R: Front
    Material: Carbon
    Defined Color: Black
    Color: Black
    Weight: 295.0 g
    Catalog Page: 454
    Wght/Dims: 1.38 lbs. 30.5 x 5.5 x 2.75

    (This is a similar diminsion fork to what I ride on now.)

    Open to suggestions Craig...
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  11. #11
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    By the way...
    170mm cranks,700x23 tires,and the bar tape will not match the saddle !

    ;)
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Cool. Personally, I wouldn't go with a super high zoot tubeset for build numba one, but it's your money. I used a mongrel SP/True Temper/Deda tubeset that a local builder had lying around for #1, OS Deda DB Cro-Mo for #2, and then Pego Richie for frame 3.

    I used about 2.5oz of 56% safety silver on frame 1, blobs and all.

    Biggest thing I finally got through my thick skull by frame 3 was that you use the evenly distributed heat of the tube/lug joint to melt the solder, and not the flame. Heat the joint, melt in solder, use the flame to distribute the solder until you get a little silver peaking out through the shorelines, repeat. Also, be habitual and methodical about going around the lug "chasing" solder, so as to not leave voids and gaps. It doesn't make sense when I write it that way but it'll make sense once you start playing with fire. It's not easy, but once you get it once or twice, you feel like superman...and then immediately f*ck up (if you're me, at least).

    Better too much flux than too little.

    Once I built with the PegoRichie (frame 3), tacking and then coldsetting was the way to go, then do the final braze. Front triangle, then chainstays, then seatstays. It's a lot tougher to coldset that niobuim stuff once it's fully brazed than it is to cold set & align cro-mo.

    IMO there is no better place to express your individuality in a build than in the seat cluster. It can be sexy, like the nape of a woman's neck.

    Measure five times, think about cutting, measure again, and then cut. Have a sleepless night wondering whether you should have measured seven times.

    I like Rattlecad rattleCAD | Free software downloads at SourceForge.net for frame design. Free, a bit more of a learning curve, but you can do whatever you need in a bike-specific application.

    You will end up with flaws that you and only you would ever notice, and they will bug you. However, you won't be able to see them when you're on your bike. Frame 2 ended up with stays that were 8mm shorter than I had designed because I had the ST/CS angle wrong when I marked for the BB miter, but it still rides just fine.

    Never underestimate the utility of a couple of old toe straps and lengths of spoke when you're holding bits in place.

    Have fun. Take lots of pics. Report often. Post in FNL. Me, I'm itching to build number 4 but think I need to just ride this summer.

    Pete
    Pete Ruckelshaus * Teacher, Fat Guy on a Bike * Collegeville, PA

    pruckelshaus' flickr
    Framejig.wordpress.com effort to collect DIY framebuilding jig designs

  13. #13
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Well said, Pete.
    <takes notes>

    My OCD gets to kickin' in, and everything bugs me;but I know exactly what you mean about the flaws that only I will notice.
    I'm a perfectionist...hauntingly so.
    I told a doctor once, after a binge drinking relapse,"It's like the world is too much!" He replied, "Actually for you, the world is not enough." LOL
    (Been sober two years in June...with the help of Buddha and Kurt Vonnegut.)

    When I work with wood or metal, sometimes I just have to stop, take a step back, and let it be the way it is.

    "So it goes..."
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  14. #14
    devlin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    I'm going to enjoy this thread. I've had a tube set sitting on the bench for the last 18 months. I keep threatening it to start but I can't decide on what I actually want to build. Also being a little bit of a perfectionist (is that possible? just a little bit?) I didn't want to start without knowing where I was going with it.

    I'll watch will interest Luke and I like your humour already.
    "Even my farts smell like steel!" - Diel

    Sean Doyle

  15. #15
    Eric Estlund's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Luke, good on ya for giving it a go.

    Devlin- just build a bike. Don't worry about building the perfect first bike or even one you have a "need" for. Building anything (even a mess) will feel better then walking past a boxed set of tubes.

  16. #16
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by devlin View Post
    I'm going to enjoy this thread. I've had a tube set sitting on the bench for the last 18 months. I keep threatening it to start but I can't decide on what I actually want to build. Also being a little bit of a perfectionist (is that possible? just a little bit?) I didn't want to start without knowing where I was going with it.

    I'll watch will interest Luke and I like your humour already.
    fonda.jpg
    "I never wanted to be anybody else."- Wyatt
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

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    einreb is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    What are your plans for 'tooling'?

    torch?
    files?
    some way to hold the lugs and tubes to file/prep them?
    some sort of jig/fixturing?

    I'm often most impressed at how little some folks use put together a frame. Good luck!

    -Bernie

  18. #18
    suhacycles is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Looking forward to the show and have fun! Hey, let's see photos of the workspace, tools, vice, etc... and don't forget to get some tube blocks...

  19. #19
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by einreb View Post
    What are your plans for 'tooling'?

    torch?
    files?
    some way to hold the lugs and tubes to file/prep them?
    some sort of jig/fixturing?

    I'm often most impressed at how little some folks use put together a frame. Good luck!

    -Bernie
    I'm building the jig as we speak...along with a few 'lil fixtures.(what I call frame lollipops)
    I'll post pics as I assemble it.
    Heavy duty if anything. LOL

    ;)
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

  20. #20
    Luke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bike 0001

    Quote Originally Posted by suhacycles View Post
    Looking forward to the show and have fun! Hey, let's see photos of the workspace, tools, vice, etc... and don't forget to get some tube blocks...
    I will post more than enough...you'll be yelling, STOP! STOP!
    Thanks for watching/reading/helping...
    -Luke
    ôSo this is how the world works, all energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet." - HST

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